Curse

Riotgear · Dec 04, 2006, 10:41 AM // 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y.T.

both ss and minions break aggro in end-game and elite mis, and good nec dosnt always mm or ss, there r alot of nice builds...

Does a mesmer really offer a good alternative to that though? If so, what makes the mesmer better for it than N/Me with the same skills?

Scourgey · Dec 04, 2006, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Mesmer is great in DOA.

Go Spiritual Pain + Energy Surge + Arcane Echo + gaze.

However I do actually have rank 6 light bringer which makes me do considerably more damage than normal.

michaelp68 · Dec 04, 2006, 03:53 PM // 15:53

How about the massive aoe damage from:

Glyph of Renewal, Spiritual Pain (x2), Shame, Lightbringer Gaze and Shatter Hex?

Add a rez and 2 others of your choice (or skip the rez and bring 3 others of your choice), i.e., Backfire, Empathy, Power Drain, Power Spike, Leech Signet or anything else you like.

Or use a shutdown build which will let the group own the bosses but will have less aoe damage.

That first list of skills does an incredible amount of damage to multiple foes with 16 in Domination.

Paperfly · Dec 05, 2006, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Quote:

um, I rarely get into pve and even I could immediately pick up the fact that dervishes pump out crazy amounts of damage in pve. Why would they be excluded?

Because they're popular. There's plenty of bad Dervishes around at lower levels, so Assassin Syndrome kicks in and the class is permanently underrated.

...Back on track, how're people going energy-wise? I'm gimping myself slightly at the moment by attempting both shutdown and damage with my domination mesmer -

{e}Mantra of Recovery
Lightbringer's Gaze
Spiritual Pain
Shame
Guilt
Mistrust
Generous was Tsungrai
Flesh of my Flesh

- but I'm finding that even with energy back from the guilt-and-shame combo I run out of juice to power the Mantra all too often. After the latest Inspiration nerf the easy point-and-shoot methods for energy gain (read: Drain Enchantmet) aren't going to feed a scrub like me, and I'm not a good enough interrupter to want to depend on Power Drain/Leech Signet.

...Or should I just drop the Mantra entirely, toss Surge in and fire off everything on recharge? Is that enough of a contribution?

(OMG, did I just admit to fallibility on the Internet? What if someone calls me a n00b?

)

Eclair · Dec 05, 2006, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paperfly

Because they're popular. There's plenty of bad Dervishes around at lower levels, so Assassin Syndrome kicks in and the class is permanently underrated.

...Back on track, how're people going energy-wise? I'm gimping myself slightly at the moment by attempting both shutdown and damage with my domination mesmer -

{e}Mantra of Recovery
Lightbringer's Gaze
Spiritual Pain
Shame
Guilt
Mistrust
Generous was Tsungrai
Flesh of my Flesh

- but I'm finding that even with energy back from the guilt-and-shame combo I run out of juice to power the Mantra all too often. After the latest Inspiration nerf the easy point-and-shoot methods for energy gain (read: Drain Enchantmet) aren't going to feed a scrub like me, and I'm not a good enough interrupter to want to depend on Power Drain/Leech Signet.

...Or should I just drop the Mantra entirely, toss Surge in and fire off everything on recharge? Is that enough of a contribution?

(OMG, did I just admit to fallibility on the Internet? What if someone calls me a n00b?

)

Hmm, how essential are your ritualist secondary skills? Because if you go monk secondary and bring essence bond, you essentially have 'infinite' energy if you cast it on the tank.

LONGA · Dec 05, 2006, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Maybe time to unload those unused green items from my mesmer and start playing again. I missed the way my mesmer taking down most W enemy fom 4 months ago.

NinjaKai · Dec 05, 2006, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclair

Hmm, how essential are your ritualist secondary skills? Because if you go monk secondary and bring essence bond, you essentially have 'infinite' energy if you cast it on the tank.

Problem with PUGs is most tanks say their tanks and are actually idiots that run to the nearest spellcaster letting other mods past.

Sophitia Leafblade · Dec 05, 2006, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Does a mesmer really offer a good alternative to that though? If so, what makes the mesmer better for it than N/Me with the same skills?

lol taht like Saying lets Get a R/Mo to monk for a party, or a Rit/Ele to Nuke for the party, sure it can be done and can occasionally be effective but it will never be as effective as using the primary attributes, Fast casting ftw! not to mention the fact u can use the Runes and u can use armour pieces taht boost ur stats even higher, 15 in domination ftw! i love to see a monk casting with backfire that does 140 damage then just when he trys to remove hex that, hes suddenly slammed for a nice 102 damage

Lady Callingwell · Dec 06, 2006, 03:11 AM // 03:11

The problem is jsut that the mesmer is not capable of "lemme-bash-my-buttons-as-a-morron-and-all-r-dead" style of play which is just so important when doing PvE because you will run into some peeps not able to do much more.

Generally the two offensive (primary) attribute lines available are domination and illusion; I wont even go into illusion against such high level enemies. Domination has some pure dps skills (mainly spiritual pain as long as there are some spirits around; e-surge has a fairly long recharge for pve spmabillity standards) however some of the skills can be such solid gold in stall situations; like diversion for example.

Everyone allways calls me an idiot for using diversion in pve but how many healing specced bosses allready dropped to it, or ele bosses limited to 1 or 2 kills instead of partywhipes. However diverting a healer's boon powered healing whisper provides so insanely much "virtual dps" by denying their dps.

But how often does it happen, in pve people stick to the "kill em quick with all you can throw at em and than move to the next mob"-mentallity, the main thing here is that game design also allows it, I'd just love to see a backline similiar to a pvp configuration. That would make stupid peak dps for 10 seconds not do it but would make fights last longer -long enough for the mesmer (and others) to actually start controlling things-.

Lumenil · Dec 06, 2006, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Well, I'havent yet been able to get in a serious PUG with my mesmer in english district 1 (europe), despite I kept advertising I have spiritual pain, mistrust, surge, mantra and whatever mesmer skill anybody could desire from me. I tried to selfinvite as well, but I got no luck. At the moment I am R3 lightbringer, tomorrow I'll farm some more points, but if nobody picks me even at R4 (I mean serious organized PUGs, not desperate ones) I'm going to give up.

maraxusofk · Dec 06, 2006, 04:51 AM // 04:51

backfire + mantra of recall + diversion = gg enemy dumb computer casters

Zinger314 · Dec 06, 2006, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by maraxusofk

backfire + mantra of recall + diversion = gg enemy dumb computer caster

Fixed.

Apok Omen · Dec 06, 2006, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Actually, to the Mesmers who say that no one wants you in the group, I have this to ask: Why would you want to lower your experience and intellegence on worthless PuG's?

GoA is the BEACON for Mesmer damage. Everyone is saying ''Bring SP + ES'' when they do not tell why. In my one time in GoA, as a Paragon, I have noticed one very important thing: There are at least 2 spirits in each mob with a Ranger Margo. And which skill recharges instantly when it targets spirits? That's right, SPIRITUAL PAIN.

With this skill and a battery behind you combined with your natural FastCasting, you are more powerful than 8 SF Eles put together. Unleash many SP's on each spirit, then finish them off with ES, followed by a possible Echoed Lightbringer's Gaze. You will find the results catastrophic.

XvArchonvX · Dec 06, 2006, 07:07 AM // 07:07

The way A-net has designed the new area, there really isn't much point in bringing a mesmer, just as there isn't any in bringing an assasin. I've seen lots of groups try lots of different tactics, and really the best way to get through is with the wall/nuke tactic. Admittedly, there is more to this now then there was before since the AI acts different and aggro can be lost more easily, but a good group that communicates well (vent ftw) can manage this well enough to make it through quickly.

While I love mesmers, there simply isn't anything they can bring to the table in these new areas that can't be done better by another class. If it were single target style battles, then mesmers would be fine, but as it stands now, huge mobs make it simply more practical to use mesmer stuff as a secondary.

Khaunshar · Dec 06, 2006, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Actually, that isnt entirely correct.

Fact is, Mesmers dont bring much to the wall/nuke tactic that other classes cannot do better.
However, there are different tactics that work as well, in some cases better, in some cases worse, than wall/nuke. And in several of those, a Mesmer does indeed have a spot.
Unfortunately, people play the way they have done it in Prophecies, and in any other MMO, which means wall/nuke, and ignore the finer aspects. So chances are, when you join a random group, they only know the wall/nuke approach, and even if they tried, would fail at anything else.
So, you are pretty much dependant on your guild or friends.

Still, I have seen different approaches work, and have actually finished City with a dervish tank (Melandrus Avatar centric) and almost finished it with a Shadowform tank.

LordDeArnise · Dec 06, 2006, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Got a caster? Backfire and Anti-spell interrupts.

Got a melee incoming? Empathy, Spirit of Failure, & Clumsiness

Need a quick charge? Power Drain & Mantra of Recall

Then there's my all-time Mesmer Favorite...Shatter Hex...take a hex out of a melee in a wad of adjacent mobs...massive AoE damage.

MESMERS RULE!

Cebe · Dec 06, 2006, 09:52 AM // 09:52

I would ALWAYS have a mesmer in my party. Mesmers are awesome...with the added bonus that when Spiritual Pain says it does 106 damage to target for guess what?....it DOES 106 damage!

Lady Callingwell · Dec 06, 2006, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

Actually, to the Mesmers who say that no one wants you in the group, I have this to ask: Why would you want to lower your experience and intellegence on worthless PuG's?

My mesmer is just my alltime favorite, and since the release of the nightfalll pvp gear selecetion the only char with whon I really pve. In prophecies and nightfall I've done each and every quest and mission + bonus, I'd like to do this in NF as well, and now I cannot do the quests down there simply because noone accpets a mesmer around. Not too much to count on the guild either as we've mainly gvging anyway when we have enough ppl.

Lucifer PVP · Dec 06, 2006, 03:00 PM // 15:00

We have had a mesmer class in my groups which have beatin 3 of the 4 quests. They are useful for killing monks.

NinjaKai · Dec 06, 2006, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Truth is if I group with a party as a mesmer. I do it with friends or guildies. They tend to be the non-half-whit kind.